In this episode of the podcast, we engage in a deep and thoughtful conversation about societal expectations of parenthood, friendship, and the concept of chosen family. The journey of navigating life and making crucial decisions often places individuals at the crossroads of societal expectations and personal desires. This discussion is an eye-opener to the various possibilities and alternatives to conventional family norms.
One of the central themes of this episode is the societal taboo of discussing pregnancy before it happens. Many people are conditioned to remain silent about their plans for parenthood until they are in the safe zone. But as we emotionally evolve, there is an increasing need for open conversations about pregnancy plans. This dialogue allows individuals to make informed decisions, and it fosters a supportive environment for those embarking on this life-changing journey.
This episode also explores the concept of chosen family and its role in creating a queer family unit. Blood relations are traditionally seen as the most critical connections in our lives however, the narrative that blood relation is the most important connection is being boldly challenged. Chosen family can provide the same, if not more, love, support, and companionship.
Also, and probably most importantly, we talk about South of the Border and the World of Coke.
Description
It’s about time you meet the GBF, huh? Michael joins Meredith this week to take a trip down memory lane, talk about the big decision they made together, and highlight the importance of chosen family in the queer community.
Transcript
Meredith:
Welcome to episode four of The Backup Plan. I’m so glad you’re here again. You’re here, I’m here, we’re going, it’s episode four. That’s my lucky number and I’ve got my lucky guy on this week’s podcast. The one, the only, gay best friend: It’s about time you guys meet him.
Michael and I met in college in northern Florida, a little coastal college town, and we were pretty much drawn to each other immediately. It was the start of something beautiful and after graduation we both moved to Orlando about the same time. We lived together for a glorious like six months and a little bit later I ended up going to Los Angeles. He stayed in Orlando a little bit longer before moving to Alaska, which is where he’s been the past couple of years, and now he’s moving down to the great state of Washington. He’s joining the lower 48 again.
So I was really excited to talk to him about this in the podcast and I think being in this setting allowed us to have kind of more of a serious conversation about it than we would in person. I think in person it would just devolve into like poop jokes and talking about, you know, the latest episode of whatever. But being in this very formal podcast setting, we’re both tied to microphones. We got we got really honest with each other, which I think is beautiful.
I think it’s worth sharing at this point kind of where the timeline is. So a year ago I decided this is something I wanted to do, sat on it for a little bit and started really making plans in March. I kind of had a social crisis at that point where my friend was going through a very public breakup and I was doing a lot to support her and support our friends Through that and I’d already decided I wanted to do this. But I think the social crisis kind of fast forwarded what was important to me and where I wanted to move forward in my life.
So that was March and, as you guys heard, I went to the OBGYN, I did some acupuncture and around that time I bought a flight to go to Alaska to do what I’d call a DIY ICI. I bought some syringes, I brought with me a sterile cup and some kind of gel that assists in the conception process I can remember what it’s called now but I can have a link to it later in the show notes and flew up to Alaska tested. My ovulation said Michael, let’s do this. We signed some papers with a friend of his who does family law to kind of settle everything between the two of us, and it didn’t work. Obviously, I was hoping it would work, but I wasn’t in a good frame of mind at the time and I think ultimately it’s better timing that it didn’t happen right then and there. But it is worth mentioning that that happened because Mike and I talk a little bit about it, about Mike going up there.
So since that trip I took a little bit of time for myself to get my head straight and to get some other affairs in order and I went through with kind of more formal preparation for starting this podcast. And in doing the podcast it’s really sped up my timeline too, because I was going to wait until after Christmas to try again, but we’re hoping to do it in the next two months, I’d say, barring any kind of major disaster or unobtainable doctor’s appointments for procedures. But that’s the timeline now. The other thing that we’re doing kind of in the meantime is I’m testing my ovulation pretty regularly with a device that I’m excited to talk to you guys about in a future episode. Michael got a semen analysis. We’re going to be talking about that in a future episode as well. It’s something that I lovingly have referred to as a swimming test, and so those are the steps that I’m going to take. I’m trying to eat healthier, I’m trying to move a little bit more. When it’s not 100 degrees outside, it’s really killing me, guys. It’s so hot here right now in Southern California, and I think that about covers it.
The only other thing I want to mention here is that Michael uses the term Dyllary when talking about my family. So my brother and his wife are Dylan and Hillary, and we coined the term Dyllary when referring to the both of them. So just know that that’s coming up. I want to thank everybody for their continued support. Please go ahead and listen to the previous episodes If you haven’t. Last week was my mom, because she’s going to be part of the whole co-parenting thing, so it was great to have her on. I talk again about, like doctors appointments that I’ve had set up in the past, and thank you to everybody for reaching out. I actually had my first meet up with the listeners. That was exciting. Shout out to Shayna and I’m going to be talking to you guys about the next episode. So thank you, shayna, and your reviews, your readings, following along on social media. It all really helps and I can’t thank you guys enough for that. In fact, I’d like to read just a couple of reviews, pat myself on the back here again,
I want to thank Raleigh. I want to thank Erica for leaving a review. Megan, thank you so much. Britney Spears guys. Britney Spears left me review. I definitely think it’s actually her and she said that this is such a fascinating listen. I’ve wondered if people can really do this. Maybe Britney is looking to do it on her own, but that’s definitely her. She gave her five stars, swamped with photos, said so exciting to hear how the story turns out. We got another one from WNW12 that said Meredith is candid, witty and inspiring. Oh, thank you. There’s not enough representation for alternative paths to parenthood. So I’m just, you know, glad to share what I’m doing, and you’ll hear in this episode too, like Mike has had some friends reach out to him and be like why is this girl doing this? Like I said, I’m just trying to find the thing that I was looking for.
So thank you for listening, thank you for continuing to support and please enjoy my conversation with Michael.
All right, mikey, how did we meet? Do you remember?
Michael:
I vaguely remember that we met it was. It was in the girls dorm on the second or third floor in the common area, the only area that the boys, that the boys were allowed, and I know this sounds like we went to college back in the 60s. But we kind of did Sort of but yeah, but I promised this was the. This was the in the 21st century. I was there tutoring my friend Stephanie our friend Stephanie in math and and I believe I had met you briefly through some other friends because I was friends with some theater folks and you were a theater major and you were there with your mom and your brother. I forget what you guys were doing. I think you’re. You guys were just watching TV or something.
Meredith:
I mean, there was a very cool big screen TV, like one of those big box projects or ones, and like we are not that old. But our school was like kind of archaic and boys couldn’t go in the girl’s dorms and girls couldn’t go in the boys dorms, so there were little common areas you could be in.
Michael:
Yes, yeah, yeah, and and and I and I think and I think we just we just collided. I like me and Stephanie started talking about something, and then I think maybe your mom chimed in, and then you chimed in, and then we just all started talking and we were kind of friends from there. We hung out with others for a while and but then I don’t think it was until the end of that semester or the beginning of the of the of the second semester in college that you and I started hanging out on our own. And then it was just magic.
Meredith:
Well, because we got frustrated with the people that we were spending time around, and it just made sense. Yes, it just made sense for you and I and Stephanie would join. Yes, a wonderful human being with a perfectly symmetrical face.
Michael:
And great comedic timing.
Meredith:
Incredible comedic timing, but it just made sense, and then our moms both got breast cancer at the same time, and so I don’t. I don’t think you and I ever like sat around and talked about oh my gosh, how about having a mom with breast cancer? Am I right?
Michael:
Yeah right.
Meredith:
But I think that you know, I think misery loves company and I think there was just sort of an innate like knowing that we just kind of pulled together at that time. Does that make sense?
Michael:
Yeah, for sure, yeah, we knew exactly what each other was going through and, in fact, because your mom got breast cancer, so shortly before my mom got it, she actually counseled my mom.
Meredith:
Yeah.
Michael:
On it. A bit was like here’s what you’re going to be going through, here’s what you’re going to be feeling. And I remember my mom saying oh my gosh, like this woman is so negative. She just keeps telling me all these negative things that I’m going to be tired and that I’m going to, but I didn’t know this, yeah, and then I’m going to be sick to my stomach and blah, blah, blah blah. She’s like I’m just sick of hearing all these negative things. And then in hindsight she was like, oh my gosh, everything Meredith’s mom told me is exactly what I went through. Well, my mom Like there was nothing positive to say about.
Meredith:
No, having breast cancer.
Michael:
There’s nothing positive to say.
Meredith:
What did she want my mom to say?
Michael:
Yeah, I just think at the time she didn’t take it seriously just how sick she would get. And so when your mom was like no, no, no, this is what’s going to happen, there’s always that sense of well, maybe for you, not me, but it was yeah, it was good, and it’s funny because I look back at that time and it was.
Meredith:
I was going through such a selfish time in my life, because you’re 18 and you’re out on your own for the first time and you’re just trying to figure out who you are, apart from family, which you already had, because you did study abroad. For how long? Two and a half years.
Michael:
Yeah, about two years.
Meredith:
You wild, wild thing out in the wilds of Iceland. But I hadn’t, and I was homeschooled too. So it was like the first time I’d been out and about in the wild and I just I put so much out of that like breast cancer time of my life. I just put that out of my mind. So, but enough about breast cancer. Why is it that you think we get along as well as we do?
Michael:
I don’t exactly know how to answer that other than to say that you and I both have serious Capricorn energy. So and even if you don’t believe in zodiac which I mean, at the end of the day, in the back of my mind I probably don’t but I will say this, like your personality type is almost everything they write about Capricorns, and so is mine. And then I also think that we that we compliment each other, because I think some things you’re really laid back about and I would get uptight about, and some things you would get uptight about and I’m really laid back about. So I think we kind of like compliment each other in that, but for the most part, like we both enjoy what we enjoy together, and every now and then you and I both sort of hate the same things at the same time, which is trouble for whoever I’m distracted at, which is trouble, but, like when I try to explain my friendship with you, it’s you and I have so much fun in the line at Target buying something Like we will literally just ask the cashier all about their whole entire life and you know which which a lot of times they’re very freely giving of their information, of their information, because no one’s ever asked them. You know what I mean. Yeah, and like and like we. Just we have a way of just like walking into like a store and then like making the people that work there just laugh so hard.
Meredith:
Or attending a wedding together and being photographed more than the bride and the groom.
Michael:
Yes, absolutely.
Meredith:
That was one that set of photographs from Whitney’s wedding, where we were in all of them, every single one.
Michael:
Probably Yep.
Meredith:
Yeah, I know I. It’s one of those friendships to where, like you know, we’ve gone through bouts where we don’t talk to each other for a little bit. But, then it just comes back together and it’s like nothing happened.
Michael:
Yeah, we can. We can not talk for a while and then just pick right up where we left off.
Meredith:
Yeah, you know what is one of my favorite things about you two and I don’t know if I’ve told you this, but I love that when you come to visit here I can take you to whatever environment and if I have to go and network or meet somebody or talk to somebody because in LA, like, every social event is also a networking event, it’s always yeah, who can you meet? Who can you talk to? And that sounds grimy, but it’s not.
Michael:
it’s not in the right way, yeah it’s, it’s very, it’s just, it’s just the culture like, like, like, if, like, if you live there, yeah, the lines between your social life and your and your work life and your opportunities are very blurred. Yeah but you guys, but it works, and and and you guys love it.
Meredith:
And I, but I can take you to any event and if I have to zip over and talk to so and so about whatever you were going to find somebody to talk to.
Michael:
And I know that you’re not.
Meredith:
I don’t want to say that you’re not going to embarrass me because you do?
Michael:
Yes, that will happen sometimes.
Meredith:
But I also. It’s difficult to embarrass me like I can be embarrassed in the moment and then the next second. It’s a funny story and I’m like remember that time. Michael said that thing if that’s place and he shouldn’t have. But it all worked out, because then it led me to meet this person, or yes, we had a good short all about it. Later there’s never a problem and I like I never feel like I have to entertain you or I have to watch out or make sure that you’re taking care of it’s like. No, he is a self contained unit who’s going to do his thing. And I’m going to do my thing and at the end of the night we’re going to come together and we’re going to have some wild story. Yes even if it’s just standing in line at Target.
Michael:
Yeah, and I’m just, I’m just always so excited to like go somewhere. I’ve never been before. You know what I mean. So so, if you’re like, you took me when I was on like a layover less than a one day layover in LA, in LA one time, and you took me to like an Irish film festival, I remember and I was just like, yeah, let’s do it, let’s, let’s, let’s go. I don’t know anything about independent Irish short films, but, darn it, I’ll learn and I’m excited to be there.
Meredith:
And then and then, there was the one time I took you to a concert for a solo act from Celtic woman, my friend Chloe Agnew.
Michael:
Yes.
Meredith:
I took you to Chloe Agnew’s concert at Christmas time. Christmas concert yes, Chloe Agnew Christmas concert in Pasadena at a church at a church, and then from there, I took you to a bar that was owned by Darren Chris. Yes that was not open. So it was a private event situation, yeah, in which you argued with Darren Chris about the lyrics to Little Mermaid. Yeah, like I was in the corner with Ariana laughing about something and then I turn around and you’re like no, no, no, no. Right yeah, and you’re like arguing with an Emmy winner.
Michael:
So yeah, luckily, okay, so luckily for me, at the time I didn’t I don’t want to say I didn’t know who Darren Chris was, because I had seen Glee, but I didn’t put the two and two together, that that’s that, that’s who this guy was, so, but but I knew that he was probably someone important and that he owned the bar. So I, you know, so I was so.
Meredith:
I was.
Michael:
That doesn’t stop you, because you’re uptight about lyrics and somebody’s got to get them right, right, but yeah, and then and then also he was like he was like give me a song, let me, let me play something. And I was like do you know this like random Spanish, this random Spanish Christmas Carol? And he’s like no, and I was like okay, here’s the beat. And he just started playing it on his, on his piano, and it was yeah, it was really, it was really cool, like yeah, we, we got along, we like kind of bonded over music for sure.
Meredith:
That’s beautiful. And then you never saw him again.
Michael:
And, yeah, I guess I, yeah, I never saw him again after that. Oh, and then we got to find him. I was going to say. And then he won. Like the very next year, he won the Emmy for the the Johnny Versace story.
Meredith:
Yeah, he was so good on that, oh my.
Michael:
God yeah.
Meredith:
We have so much fun everywhere we go. Where is your favorite travel destination that we’ve been to together, and why is it the world of coke? Yes, oh.
Michael:
Gosh, we just love and and that’s the thing is, like you and I, the bigger and more grandeur that a place has Probably the least fun you and I have had, and that’s. And that’s not saying we didn’t have any fun, but I’m just saying in comparison, probably the least fun when I think about something like the world of coke and how you and I just the old world of coke. The oh, is there? Wait, is there a new one in Atlanta?
Meredith:
Yeah, you were all excited that they had. Oh, you were like Meredith, we got to go.
Michael:
Yes, that’s right. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah, the world of coke or south of the border in in South Carolina.
Meredith:
I was literally just talking about south of the border this afternoon at lunch. I asked my co-workers. I was like, okay, who here has been to south of the border? And they were like, what is it?
Michael:
And I was like no, I don’t know, don’t know, they don’t know yeah.
Meredith:
Well they’re. These are Midwesters.
Michael:
Oh, okay.
Meredith:
These, yeah, midwesterners that I was with and they thought they knew, but they did not know.
Michael:
Yeah, it sounds like a Mexican restaurant, but it’s not. It is. It is an experience. I mean there probably is a Mexican restaurant in south of the border, but it’s, it’s an experience and you and I just had so much fun there and it’s funny. When you asked me that question, immediately what came to mind was world of coke and south of the border.
Meredith:
We’ve talked about how we met. We’ve talked about the trips that we’ve taken. How close would you say that you feel to my family?
Michael:
Gosh, I have varying degrees of closeness, though. Like I’m super duper, duper close to you, I am only very slightly less close to your mom and then I don’t. Yeah, I mean, I feel, I feel like there, I feel like there was a time that I was probably closer to Dealerie, but I I know that they are down for me to Stop by and hang out anytime, you know it’s God. Yeah, it’s just logistics that that’s the only reason why I’m not closer to them.
Meredith:
How close would you say that you are to my nephew? I?
Michael:
I I feel the closeness to him that I feel with my own mesas and nephews. They yeah, and, and also they, they, I am just. I am this elusive uncle that lives far away that you know, whenever I’m around, they’re super excited to see and yeah, and then. And then I go away for a while and they forget about me. And then I come back and they’re like oh yeah, that’s Uncle Mikey, we like him.
Meredith:
I and last week’s podcast with my mom, I talked about how sweet I found it that I wasn’t. I Wasn’t in Florida for Christmas, but you were and you went and visited Mars with your own niece. Oh yeah, so you had a whole like Christmas night and like gift exchange with them, and I wasn’t even there and I just thought that was the sweetest thing. It was very endearing.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, no, we, we, we loved it. I wish that, that you know. I wish that my sister and your brother weren’t on Like complete opposite ends of the city from each other and like I know like, like. When I say that I mean it is. It is about an hour Over an hour with traffic, and we’re not even talking about LA here, we’re just talking about Orlando. But it’s but literally like the, the, the, the sheer Distance between between the two of them is a lot for families that that have things going on.
Meredith:
Yeah, yeah.
Michael:
So, but I wish they could see each other more.
Meredith:
Yeah, yeah, okay. So, babies, when I started telling you that I wanted to do this, I don’t I don’t know if I’ve told you this that, like at that dinner where we were eating pizza, I was gonna ask you if you wanted to participate in this.
Michael:
But you okay, wait, you said at that dinner where we were eating pizza, which one refresh my memory.
Meredith:
The one where you offered me your sperm okay at downtown Disney.
Michael:
Downtown Disney. Yes, it was just me and you that went there.
Meredith:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember, okay, yes, you know the multiple times we’ve had pizza together and you’ve offered me your sperm.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, it was it was it was that it was that particular time got it that particular sperm pizza outing.
Meredith:
No, I was gonna ask you because, like we have that. I mean, I was like I don’t know how I’m gonna broach this because I was very nervous about asking, because we have joked over the Year so many times and in fact I, like I’ve re-signed into Facebook to add a page for this podcast on Facebook and it’s such a it’s such a wild, wild. Now, like I have no, idea how to navigate it. It is just a different world, but it’s wild.
Michael:
Some people are still really into Facebook, like I have some friends that are posting like 14, 15 times a day. They’re younger than me. You know what I mean. Like there, it’s not, it’s not like your old aunt or anything that’s doing it. Yeah, some people are just that’s, that’s that’s their Social media thing, and and then the rest of us have other ones now.
Meredith:
It’s so.
Michael:
I’ve moved on from.
Meredith:
It’s so cluttered to me. That’s my biggest problem with them. I’m like I don’t know how. Where am I supposed to look?
Michael:
I don’t get it right, but we used to, it used to, we used to like the clutter, I guess.
Meredith:
Well, they started. I think I read something where, even if the layout of it looks worse, if it gets people to engage with it more, they will choose the worst-looking layout.
Michael:
Because they’ll choose engage over aesthetics so yeah, it is what it is.
Meredith:
Fully believe that, Yep but I was going through tagged photos and I found one that I had posted in 2015 Wait. I’m gonna read it to you because it’s really funny, and I was like, well, you knew what you were doing this whole time. Meredith, jesus Christ, michael is the peanut butter to my jelly. He’s taught me patience, irreverence and the importance of knowing where the nearest Taco Bell slash Pizza Hut is. Here’s to over a dozen years of friendships, terrible hair decisions, running over trash cans, sleeping in food poisoning at working for IKEA, computer-generated mock-ups of what our baby would look like, interpretive dance pillow barriers, being each other’s plus ones and avoiding becoming plus-sized. Well, happy birthday to the man who will inevitably be the father to my late in life modern family child.
Michael:
Yes.
Meredith:
Yeah, so there it is.
Michael:
It’s just. That’s why I’m surprised to hear you say that you were like nervous to bring up the subject, because I just I thought this was just always. I, I thought this was just always something that that you wanted to do and like and and like. Eventually, you were gonna just be like alright, you know what, it’s time I know what, but it when it becomes real.
Meredith:
It’s like you know it. When it goes from being a joke to like yeah, no, actually here’s a cup.
Michael:
It just.
Meredith:
I mean, I think it’s my own sort of nerves about just making big life decisions. I was like, and I was also very um, emotions were running high because it was like the one-year anniversary of my dad passing and everything. So, yeah, I was just really nervous about actually asking and so I was like, yeah, I think I want to do this, I think when I have a baby on my own, and you were like, okay, well, I’ll donate.
Michael:
Yeah, I was like oh great, okay, cool.
Meredith:
So like were you surprised that I finally like gave into it.
Michael:
Yeah, I was a little bit, because I will say, like I told you a few minutes ago, I’m about halfway through this week’s episode which I guess, by the time this comes, it’ll be last week where you’re talking to your mom and I just always assumed that if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t going to be a baby that was had with your husband in marriage, that it wasn’t really going to happen. And so when you were finally like I’m going to do this, whether I have that storybook situation or not, yeah, I was surprised when you said that and I’m like, okay, she’s actually ready to do that. And that’s also how I knew that you had really changed from when we were younger, which is great, it’s a good thing. We’re supposed to change. We’re not supposed to be the same people that we were when we were 19 and we met. So, yeah, that was the point that I realized that like, oh, okay, she is not the person that I met when I was 19 that had these very traditional ideas in her head of a family and marriage and husband and all that. And, yeah, and she’s actually ready to take it to the next level. And I’ll say, even at that conversation, what probably wasn’t as big of a deal to me as it was to you, because it still just wasn’t real for me. I was like, okay, before I get too emotionally invested in this, let me actually see what kind of follow-up Meredith is going to have about this. And it took a while, but eventually yeah, it was. Eventually, it was real.
Meredith:
Yeah, well, because I had a move in phases Sometimes I just sometimes I move so quickly through something where I’m like, yep, this is what I want, I’m gonna go for it. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then other times it’s like, no, no, I’m like people tell me like, move quicker, do, like, are you gonna actually do this or not? And it’s like give me time, I know what I’m doing, I’m like making and I had to get over some mental hurdles. And it’s funny because I don’t think that I don’t think I was ever as committed to that conventional situation that you think that I was. But I think that we both kind of have encountered this a lot over the past couple of years in whatever way, shape or form that we came to this notion of that. Is this something that I actually want or is this something that I hear that I’m supposed to want? And so I say that I want it, but I don’t actually take the time to think about whether or not I actually want it. And I’ve had a couple of those moments come up in the past year or so where I’ve realized, oh wait, no, I never actually liked that thing, or I’ve always really liked this thing and this is just. It’s manifesting in this way now. And those are nice realizations to have.
Michael:
Yeah, and so let me say this so obviously I think you and I have talked about when I have revealed our plan to people of a certain age. Obviously it’s very, very jarring to them, even to ones that I thought would be like totally on board and totally supportive. But one of the things I also wanted to mention is just certain things that I’ve heard from people our own age or even younger, and that is this taboo about. You are talking about having a baby and you’re not even pregnant yet.
Meredith:
Oh yeah.
Michael:
And you’re talking about all of this before anything’s actually happening. And I did have a friend say to me the other day what’s the point of this podcast, Like why is she talking about all this when it hasn’t even happened yet, she hasn’t even gotten pregnant yet? And it made me realize like it is still so taboo in our society to you know, even after you get pregnant, you’re not supposed to announce it. Until what is it like three weeks or a month?
Meredith:
Well, not supposed to according to who.
Michael:
Who’s?
Meredith:
making that rule yeah.
Michael:
I think it was just based on, like the likelihood that the pregnancy is super viable.
Meredith:
It’s a first trimester thing.
Michael:
Exactly, yeah. So a lot of people won’t reveal it until they know for sure that the pregnancy is going to happen, and so it becomes this societal taboo to talk about things, to talk about having a kid, before you even have a kid.
Meredith:
Yeah well, and I’ve come up upon that myself, because my original intention was to start recording and then but kind of try to do it in an evergreen way where I didn’t mention, like the season or the month or whatever- and just record. And then when I hit my first trimester to start releasing those podcasts so basically I’d be like three months ahead and I would know it was like okay to do it. And then the more I started like preparing the podcast and getting it ready, I was like no, I wanna talk about it right now, like I wanna talk about it now. And I have had to deal with my own I don’t know inner demons in that for these big life events, I like to make the choice and go and do it and not talk to anybody and not tell anybody about it. And my plan for myself in having kids with a partner because that is the traditional way to do it is that I’ve always said I want to get married so quickly that people think I’m pregnant and have a baby so suddenly that they never knew I was pregnant, like I wouldn’t want to. There was a part of me that didn’t want to tell anybody anything and just have my own personal vulnerable moments to myself. And so I have had a wreck in a little bit with oh wait, I’m putting this podcast out and I don’t know what’s going to happen. I don’t know how hard getting pregnant will be. Am I going to run out of content or people to talk to or things to talk about?
Michael:
Am I going to be crying?
Meredith:
on this podcast in a couple of months because it’s not happening, or is it going to happen really quickly and I don’t even have to worry about it? You?
Michael:
can’t worry about things.
Meredith:
until you have to worry about things and if I have to go on hiatus. I go on hiatus. Fucking water doesn’t matter.
Michael:
Yeah, you have to think about what if we’re six months into this podcast and I’m still not pregnant. But I think that’s the whole point and that’s what this podcast is offering here. That doesn’t exist out there, and it’s like we’re going to start talking about this from the very, very, very beginning, before there’s even a pregnancy. And if that seems idiotic to someone, or if that seems like why would you talk about a pregnancy that you haven’t had yet then the only thing I have to say to that is because these conversations don’t happen, and they should happen if you can help it. A lot of people wake up one day, find that they’re pregnant and then, all of a sudden, they have to start thinking about all this stuff.
Meredith:
And also because I don’t have a partner. I mean, you are a partner in this and my mom is a partner in this and that she’s going to be around to help co-parent, and I mean I don’t have one person that I have an intimate relationship with that we can like gently plan together and talk about with soft voices and giggle over baby registries together. I don’t have that. I don’t want to giggle with you about baby registries. But you know, like this is just, I’m just planning it in a different way. And here’s a question I have for you this person, this friend of yours that said what’s the point of this podcast? Male or female?
Michael:
Male, absolutely. Yeah, there you go.
Meredith:
Well, there you go. Yeah, Well, I hope that they start listening and start loving it against their own will and intention.
Michael:
Right.
Meredith:
And they’re the number one fan of the podcast. I don’t know.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, and maybe they can beat one over, and I did take some time. Obviously, like this is all very that. Responding to that with any type of like exasperation would not have been the correct way. I just very calmly explained this is why, and if you know of resources out there, podcasts out there, where people start talking about this before you even get pregnant or before you even start trying to get pregnant, then let me know, because I don’t think that’s out there.
Meredith:
It’s. I mean, I just knew that what I was looking for I couldn’t find, and I just wanted to make the thing that I was looking for you know and that’s always, that’s been my intention to working in the entertainment industry. There were so many things I had to learn, and anytime I was able to talk to an intern or a student or an assistant and say, oh my god, nobody ever told me this. I’m going to tell you this so that you don’t go through the heartbreak and frustration that I did Like it’s just you know it’s paying it forward in any way you can. So that’s my, that’s my intention. Are you excited about this?
Michael:
Yeah, there’s different stages of excitement. So obviously it was like when we first started doing this, I was, I was excited about it, and then now it’s just very like oh yeah, this is, this is what we’re doing. This is day to day life, you know.
Meredith:
Yeah, yeah.
Michael:
But yeah, but, as you know, I’m also like upending my life right now.
Meredith:
So I perfect time to make another life.
Michael:
Right. So I’m super distracted and haven’t had time to emotionally devote to thinking about this all the way.
Meredith:
I’m excited about the fact that you’re going to be closer to me.
Michael:
I’m moving halfway to you.
Meredith:
Yeah, and in 10 more years you’ll move another halfway.
Michael:
Yes.
Meredith:
Eventually, when we’re 80, you’ll live next door. Yeah, I’m just, I’m looking forward to an easier flight. And I mean, you know me and I was talking about this at lunch with my colleagues when we were talking about South of the border, and then we talked about traveling and stuff, and I was with people who were like, oh, I love to go hiking, I like to go through the mountains and stuff, and I’m just like what?
Michael:
No.
Meredith:
And the guidance. I love a place with a botanical garden.
Michael:
But now listen.
Meredith:
For context, Michael and I watched.
Michael:
It was like the first season Project Runway yeah.
Meredith:
And there was the woman from South Africa and she was inspired by the botanical gardens and we’ve, like never, not been able to say that.
Michael:
And it’s something that we find funny, that no one else probably understands why that’s so funny to us.
Meredith:
But I was talking about how I, my travel style, is much more like a town and city focused and that like I don’t see, I don’t want to like hike up through like the glory of nature, like I love, I love a drive through nature and I like a walk. It’s fine, I like. I like getting out into the wilderness sometimes, but generally I’m more a museum, like little town shopping, market excursion sort of a person. And so you moving to a little city makes me very excited to be.
Michael:
I’m moving somewhere that has both.
Meredith:
Yeah.
Michael:
There’s, there’s this, there’s the city for city people that want to come visit me, and then there’s the. The wilderness is 20 minute drive away for all the people that are more in there.
Meredith:
I like that, see, I like a 20 minute drive away. And my wilderness is more like coastline and stuff like that which you’re, you’re not going to have, but like that’s just my wilderness speed yes, so Fairbanks is not as much my jam and I try it honest, honest to God, I tried, I tried.
Michael:
And I love that.
Meredith:
I love that you loved it. I love, I love that you still love it. So, but I am excited about like traveling with a little youngster to like a key little place with like a very sweet little river.
Michael:
Sure, we can. We can push the stroller to the Red Rob, think of that.
Meredith:
There’s a Red Robin nearby and it is within stroller pushing distance. So that’s going to be great. And then you know we do love to travel to the world of Coke and other global destinations. The only place that we’ve been to outside of the States is Canada, though, isn’t it?
Michael:
Yeah, that’s probably the only international place that you and I have been, so we need to change that.
Meredith:
Yeah, sure, we need to change that, and I think that you and I have the same values in terms of. You know, I I’m going to be doing most of the parenting here, but I think that you and I have the same values in terms of worldliness and getting to know, getting to learn as much about the globe as you possibly can, and I want that’s. What I want to do is I just want to think I want to get around the world Like I’m really excited about that.
Michael:
Yes, just thinking about the world.
Meredith:
What does family mean to you?
Michael:
Oh gosh, it means a lot of different things. Family is, especially as someone who’s you know part of the LGBT community. We always talk about like there’s there’s your blood family and then there’s your chosen family. I’ve been very blessed to have a great family on both sides, so your blood family is the family that, for better or for worse, you know you’re stuck with them in a certain way. They definitely love them or hate them. They have shaped you, they have made you who you are. If you’re lucky, you are still close to many of them. But also you and I have talked about this before just because you’re blood related to someone, if they are not a helpful presence in your life, it is perfectly acceptable to take a break from them or to cut them out completely. You know, we should never get stuck into this situation where we feel like, just because of the genetic lottery that you were born blood related to someone, that that person has to be in your life if they’re no longer contributing to it positively. Then there’s your chosen family and that’s sort of where you come in, where your mom comes in, where so many of my friends up here in Alaska come in, and these are people that provide to you the same support that family does, and sometimes even more and better support than your blood family does. And these are the people that you get so much closer to them than just friends that it seems weird to say that your friends anymore, and it also seems weird to say best friend, because I’ve always had like multiple. I know you have multiple, you know what I mean like and I also think it’s too much pressure to put on, to put on one specific person that you call your best friend, although I know some people only have the emotional capacity to have one really good friend. You know what I mean. They keep their circles small and I understand that and I respect that. But yeah, when we start talking about chosen family, we talk about people that are there for you and a lot of times you’ve told them more than you would ever tell your actual blood family and they have been through more things with you that your family that you’re related to may not even know about, and so I don’t consider those people any less family than people that are related to me by blood, If anything. Again, these people probably know me better than my own family actually does.
Meredith:
Well, because they’re, I feel like my family. You know, I for a long time I was like I’m an ally, I’m an ally and I’m like wait, no, I’m the, I’m the B in LGBT. But I think that when you are a queer person, that it is kind of. I mean, this is a queer family, what we are going to create is a queer family. So if this kid comes out any one of the letters in that alphabet, who knows how they’ll feel? But in the kind of society that has been constructed, chosen family becomes so important to us.
Michael:
Yes, and I think you only need to look at your own nephew, mars, to be like. You know I’m his uncle. I’m Uncle Mikey, you know. Yeah, my niece and nephew both have a brother who has no blood relation to me. He’s their half-brother, but I’m Uncle Mikey to him. You know, kids just know the family unit that you put around them and they don’t ask questions. And they don’t ask all these questions about how exactly your your blood related. All of that stuff comes much later. Even think about your mom, that one lady. She was grandma, you know. Later on she found it out it was step grandma. She didn’t know any better when she was young.
Meredith:
Yeah, we don’t know. We don’t know what’s right or wrong until somebody says this is right and this is wrong Absolutely. What makes them get to decide that that’s right or wrong? Nobody has the power to do that so yeah fuck that shit, man. So yeah, I’m just, I’m excited to just like, like I said in the first episode, I think it was when I talked to my therapist and she was like stop thinking about things, what do you feel? I was like oh yeah, that’s different, huh okay, so that was nice, anyway. Well, yay, we’ll talk in a future episode about the results of the swimming test you took.
Michael:
Okay.
Meredith:
For lack of a better term, but at this point we’ll just we’ll leave it here and thank you for joining.
Michael:
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Meredith:
Well, thanks for letting me have your sperm.
Michael:
Well, yeah, I guess I did give it to you at one point. Huh, okay, I was like well, I only gave it to like some lab in Southern California, but sure, yeah, no there’s that whole time.
Meredith:
I flew to you and you gave it to me Right?
Michael:
yes, yeah, I remember how much easier this would be if I just got knocked up.
Meredith:
Yeah!
The Backup Plan was created, produced and hosted by me, Meredith Kate. Julian Hagins is my co-producer. You can find us on social media at @backupplanpod. The best place to get updates is to sign up for our newsletter at backupplanpod.com, where we also post all episodes, show notes and transcripts.
Thank you for listening.
